What does the Ranger need ATM ?

Controlled Debate Area

What does the Ranger need ATM ?

Postby froteo » Fri Jan 29, 2010 2:53 pm

After the release of UF I have seen my DPS go up with especially FSoA and with the increased BoW based AAs.

Im not in a guild that have gotten or will get any upgrades from UF raids soon. Just started Korafax raids in sod. Atm it seems that just wizzies, mage and necros beat the 10-12 k range that a ranger can get on raids with UF spells and full AAs. So Im real happy with the boost we got to DPS from UF. ( I expect rog and brz to beat my dps when they get their AAs, discs what ever from UF and bst to equal).
Our Harmony Arrow I use alot in UF content, often being a not so good puller is my ticket to a UF group. The kill time on the mobs atm makes HA timer not so bad as in SoD.

I have read that guilds raiding UF rangers get beaten on DPS by other melee based classes. But I dont know much about that So others have to post about the top raids level needs.

What I do think we lack in UF is our versatility.-
Most I miss our ability to tank, I can tank much less in UF than SoD.
Our ability to do CC have taken a hit with mobs being much thougher and closer between its often not possible to grab aggro drag away and root, or its not possible to ae root a bad pull, because you easily hit non aggroed mobs.
Our ability to heal have gone further down the drain, I dont feel the few increases in heal AAs cover even the HP increases with UF gear.

So I really like some spell and or AA that help us tank and do CC.

A boost to our Protection Of the spiritwolf AA, both length and total cap.
A new Defensive AA that reduce hits to max DI 15 for 1 min. 15 min reuse. AA line to hasten to 10 mins. (the DI is just a guess, But something that cut the top spikes off would be nice).
An AA line that makes increasing levels of ac on offhand count as shield AC.
AA to make Outriders evasion last longer.
More CS, more Armor of wisdom what ever to flatten our taken DPS.

A "ranger tank" setting to mercs even

A Root that push mobs 30 feet in direction you face. Give the mob a 300 pt rune that needs to fade before root fades, 2 min timer on rune/root, 30 sec snare triggered on rune /root fade. "Vinelash root" or something, cast max 1 sec, recast to adjust cc ability. Proberbly max 20 sec. the lower the better. Resist needs to be made so it lands reliably for it to be usefull in current content.

I dont have any old parsing that shows that our tankability have gone south, to back my claim about it. But it really makes sence that the worst tanks will be unable to tank if content gets harder as it did from SoD to UF.

Our CC abilities is closely tied to our ability to take hits to, its not like we lost the ability to root and snare, but the zones in UF are more crowded and faster repops makes us need a new tool to keep us viable for much CC.
froteo
Ranger
 
Posts: 110
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 10:11 am

Re: What does the Ranger need ATM ?

Postby Whitman » Sat Jan 30, 2010 4:01 am

froteo wrote:What I do think we lack in UF is our versatility.-
Most I miss our ability to tank, I can tank much less in UF than SoD.


Be a tank, or be versatile. Can't have it both ways IMO.

From a grouper's perspective, it seems that for a long time (up to SoD), the aim was to turn us into tanks, making us less and less versatile. In order to survive in (then) current content, we had to have all the defensive AAs from that content first - leaving little time for development of the other aspects of being a ranger.

With SoD, focus shifted away from tanking and to some of our other abilities - HA pulling being the most obvious. This trend is continued in UF with more nuke/heal AAs, Cover tracks and more archery AAs (yay!).

So, our ability to tank takes a hit because the other things that make a ranger are improved. I'm generally very happy with the past two expansions' AA choices for rangers. No, I can't tank anything worthwhile in UF, but then, I never could tank anything 'current', so /shrugs.
Retired. Goodbye, and thanks for all the tips.
Whitman
Warder
 
Posts: 707
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 11:43 am
Location: Denmark

Postby froteo » Sat Jan 30, 2010 8:46 am

But besides dps (true fsoa/ bow AAs/sureshot combo) where is the versatility we gotten in UF ?

Our CC is limited not by immunities like SoD, but by our ability to take hits and the design of UF zones that makes root/snare a real hard way to do CC.

Our new aid to others in group is limited to 1 new DoT/ds and a hastned auspice, while our old support functions group gotf, attack buffs, cof is left with no upgrades thus deteriorated.

Being a ranger is being versatile in my book and yes we can do it all, we just cant be the best at any of it. I feel our tankability have tanke a big hit with UF and at my level we gained DPS.

How is it that we have gotten more versatile in UF ?
Cover tracks I love, its nice to be able to do something new, but its not an ability to base much upon since its timer is 15 mins.
I feel our heals have deteriorated even with the new AAs due to increase in average HPs and mob dps.
Archery AA have boosted our DPS, but its still just significant during sureshot.
froteo
Ranger
 
Posts: 110
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 10:11 am

Postby Delbaeth » Tue Feb 02, 2010 11:15 pm

It seems to me we are doing fairly well. When I foul up it isn't bad mitigation or lack of tools that has me annoyed but classic old crap like targeting, lag, mobs with 100' rubber arms and the way we have to stand stock still for a second spinning before the risk of a moving spell interrupt fades down to something merely painful.

I have pulled many a nasty camp, like say the pits in Arthicrex where once you touch it you may have 6 unless you sit and wait on HA, and handled it with root. No, I'm not doing the whole job feeding the group perfect single pulls, some times we fight 2, sometimes we have an exciting time but we don't sit around hoping a chanter, bard or monk logs in either. I have seen another puller bring in the Arthicrex patrol by mistake, got it under control and killed them all.

So much of our utility is that beam root and it requires players to cooperate. When the tank charges a pack of 5 rooted mobs and dies everyone's first reaction is ranger CC sucks. Then when you nuke one loose, tank and kill it while rooting the rest, repeat, kill all the mobs while the tank gets ressed people catch on. Of course it isn't like you can do this all by yourself. If your healer worships the god of mana efficiency you will die and they will say rangers can't tank. If your healer, slower, other dps are on the ball they do what it takes and get their mana back after while the tank is waiting on res effects fade anyway.

We have good utility. We have a healthy dose of tanking even though we don't measure up to a real tank. We have a healthy dose of DPS though a true DPS class can show us up.

I am finding ranger utility is good in Underfoot. I am finding I have a fun role and do a range of things. I really love it when the brown hits the fan and I can cut loose with Storm of Arrows hitting every mob in camp. Sure, its dangerous, but 3 Scent of A Woman mission, immune to every fool thing, robots in camp is just a blast with every one of them getting nailed each time Storm pops. We just went back and did Kithicor so some members who missed it before could get their spells. What a hoot it was dropping Storm of Arrows on all 4 Aneuks in a cluster. I was in a tank group with the task of keeping one set busy but our group of ranger, berserker, paladin, shadowknight, cleric and shaman promptly killed them all and ran off to help the next direction. A lot of that was Storm with Sureshot and shaman epic. The berserker was looking at his parse and saying nerf. Sure, it is a lower tier raid but my guild is just now getting enough Tower keys we will go inside soon.

The best AA we got in Underfoot is Clenched Jaw. The greatly diminished number of stuns I suffer does wonders for everything but mana rogue hit it the back and push buttons mode. Even then it helps when I get some big boss mad at me and instead of being stunned I can do something like pop cover tracks or weaponshield.

I hope we can get a faster snare. It doesn't seem right necros and shadowknights have substantially faster casting snares. They don't even have the DOT liability they always had on their snares way back in the dark ages.

Other than that nit I think we are doing well.
Delbaeth
Outrider
 
Posts: 443
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:30 pm

Re: What does the Ranger need ATM ?

Postby hatsee » Fri Feb 26, 2010 5:26 pm

Consolidation probably. Same with most classes.

I was thinking about how warrior kicks stun, and ours do not, seems that there is the potential to add things to kicks. Could they scrap JFK and say cut the damage/jolt in half to match the reuse of a normal kick and toss it on there? Further upgrading it in later expansions with aa's? I have no idea, but that would save a lot of us some time and effort not to mention hot bar space. Or how about GoTF and Oatk, who doesn't normally hit those together? Would combining them really be that bad? Again it saves space, time, effort, and it wraps up two aa's that we're normally always going to use together, although it would make us able to gain the effects of Oatk a bit more often, it's small enough that no one should really care.

Just things like that, ease up on the 'skill' require to play, IE button mashing, and make it a bit more fun for everyone. We're getting older and a lot of people don't seem to be able to keep up with the top end really, which means the divide is too large and in some cases should it result in a nerf or stagnation the people who were behind will be even more behind. Not going to be an issue for us really, but for other classes, however it's still a concern I suppose.

Other than that I'd say that right now we are fine, bit more effort still to keep up with others but we manage, those of you that play well in the mid tier and lower are getting a lot of hate but again that's really not how things look at the top end of the spectrum. Our burst dps when we are gearing up in say T8 raid gear is going to be quite a bit behind the other classes, I think. If it is then I'd put that as a concern, but I have no idea how things will look at that point, but given the boosts others seem to have coming in terms of a general boost or itemization boost I'm expecting to be back here trying to figure out what we need to even be worth a slot in a raid if you don't need things rooted.

One reason I'm asking for better rooting tools, heh.
http://eq.magelo.com/profile/1432623
hatsee
Plainswalker
 
Posts: 1115
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 5:09 am

Re: What does the Ranger need ATM ?

Postby Karian_RoI » Wed Aug 18, 2010 2:55 am

Auspice keeps 2 of us in a job in a high end guild, the third is extremely optional and fight dependent. Burst dps, "Burst" tanking ability, and our utility is going to be what we should focus on, but I'm sure we can argue over a 7k crit being worth the spell slot instead.
Karian_RoI
Pathfinder
 
Posts: 232
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2010 1:41 am

Re: What does the Ranger need ATM ?

Postby Vereor » Tue Aug 31, 2010 9:38 pm

-- Quicker repop on cover tracks would be awesome.
-- Refund of aa's on harm arrow would be nice now that it is completely worthless.
-- Faster repop on forceful rejuvination
-- less "activated" aa's.
Vereor
Ranger
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2010 2:33 pm

Re: What does the Ranger need ATM ?

Postby Lenuvas » Wed Sep 01, 2010 2:05 pm

-- Refund of aa's on harm arrow would be nice now that it is completely worthless.


Just because it's not the God Mode Easy Button it used to be doesn't mean it's "completely worthless." I frequently pull and frequently use HA as my tool to split mobs. In fact, I'd like to see the timer for it reduced as 2 minutes can be a long wait between pulls if I can't split mobs to where I'll have a single pull next while I wait for HA to refresh.
Lenuvas
Ranger
 
Posts: 27
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 2:11 pm

Re: What does the Ranger need ATM ?

Postby Shaggio » Wed Sep 01, 2010 2:55 pm

I would like to see the messages for GotF and GGotF made different from each other. I noticed this discrepancy while trying to set refresh timers for my abilities through GamText Triggers.

I think it`s kinda weird that they use the same on/off messages.
Shaggio
Outrider
 
Posts: 400
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 11:09 pm
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: What does the Ranger need ATM ?

Postby Lrbearclaw » Wed Sep 01, 2010 8:22 pm

Lenuvas wrote:
-- Refund of aa's on harm arrow would be nice now that it is completely worthless.


Just because it's not the God Mode Easy Button it used to be doesn't mean it's "completely worthless." I frequently pull and frequently use HA as my tool to split mobs. In fact, I'd like to see the timer for it reduced as 2 minutes can be a long wait between pulls if I can't split mobs to where I'll have a single pull next while I wait for HA to refresh.

With the original HA, I was one of the advocates that 2minutes was best as it was NOT overpowered. With the current version, I would like to see a 5-10 second (no more than 30 second) reuse. When I got back to EQ after the change (with the original Flusterbolt) I took both "useless" skills out and spent 5 hours dying and almost dying in Zeka to learn how to use them. Yes, I can't pull the cook camp in KW up by RCC now. Oh well, but it takes skill. When HoT launchs, lulls will go to 90 so HA will work in all SoD and most UF.

Just give it a month and learn your toon/skills.
Image
User avatar
Lrbearclaw
Pathfinder
 
Posts: 257
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2006 9:32 am
Location: Michigan

Re: What does the Ranger need ATM ?

Postby Lenuvas » Thu Sep 02, 2010 8:15 am

Lrbearclaw wrote:With the original HA, I was one of the advocates that 2minutes was best as it was NOT overpowered. With the current version, I would like to see a 5-10 second (no more than 30 second) reuse.


Agreed. 2 minutes was fine originally because it was so overpowered, but now that timer needs to come down.
Lenuvas
Ranger
 
Posts: 27
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 2:11 pm

Re: What does the Ranger need ATM ?

Postby Ariowen Dor'drondel » Thu Sep 02, 2010 10:45 am

I find HA far from useless in its current state. I used it just last night to help split mobs in Conv, granted it isn't the be all end all easy button pull it was. Knowing exactly how HA works now and used in combination with ae root and fb, it is a powerful pull combination.

I also agree, 2 minute reuse timer on this is now too long. IMO it should be 30 second cool down reuse max, would prefer 10-15 second cool down reuse timer.
Image
Guild Leader of Alarius
Cazic Thule Server
User avatar
Ariowen Dor'drondel
Outrider
 
Posts: 410
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 12:01 pm

Re: What does the Ranger need ATM ?

Postby Lrbearclaw » Fri Sep 03, 2010 6:01 pm

Gimme HA as it is on a 30 second timer and add my "double click" thing and HA will be back to being gold. We will never have the original back, but we can at least seek to enhance this AA as it is.
Image
User avatar
Lrbearclaw
Pathfinder
 
Posts: 257
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2006 9:32 am
Location: Michigan


Return to The Debate Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest